(I don’t intend to make this blog a North-South debate. So I have tried my best to carefully choose my words. I have read this blog over and over again and have posted this only after making sure that there is no provoking content).
I have been living in North India for six consecutive years now. By using the word ‘Northern India’, I don’t intend to bring the states above the tropic of cancer under a single banner. ‘North India’ is only to be construed as an umbrella term to group the Northern states under a single name for the sake of simplicity in writing.
The first thing I have observed over these years is that the people* born and brought up in Northern India have no idea about the geography or the culture of the states located to the south of the tropic of cancer. We shall exclude Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Orissa from the debate since they lie on both sides of the tropic of cancer.
I recently underwent Managerial training where I had the opportunity to meet experienced people from various industries, hailing predominantly from the regions constituting the Northern India. We went through a customary introduction session where everyone had to introduce themselves, speak about their educational background and hobbies. When my turn came, I informed them that I listen to Carnatic music. To my surprise, there came a question from a 40 year old: “You told us that you were from Tamilnadu. Why do you like Karnatik (sic) music then?”
I had no answer.
The second thing that I noticed when interacting with some of my colleagues at office is that they ostensibly had no inkling about the states that constituted ‘South India’. They had no idea about the language spoken in each of these states, their food habits and they lacked location sense completely. Otherwise, one of my North-Indian colleagues, who moved to Hyderabad, wouldn’t have told me this: “I guess we can meet when you come down to Chennai, since Chennai and Hyderabad are located in close proximity”.
The states termed as ‘The South’ have their own unique cultures and traditions and are as different among them as they are from the Northern states. Grouping them under a common name itself is doing grave injustice (unless grouping them under the umbrella term is for the sake of simplicity).
When in school, I was taught something called the Cultural diversity of India. I hope that chapter still remains an ideal part of the social sciences syllabus. I also had to read about the agricultural diversity of ‘North India’, had to mark where sugarcane and wheat was grown in the gangetic delta on a map, and study about the biodiversity in Uttaranchal. I remember reading about Akbar’s conquests in Northern India, the ascent and the descent of the Mughal dynasty, Jallianwallah Bagh Massacre and many historical events that have nothing to do with my place of upbringing. I still read and remembered them as events that constituted the history and geography of India. I felt that feeling of oneness when I read about Bhagat Singh revolting against the Britishers.
Today, the scene is different. I can bet that not many from the North of India* (unless the person is a history student) would have heard about Subramanya Bharathi or V.O. Chidambaram Pillai and their contribution to Indian freedom struggle. I doubt if they even know Tuticorin is a natural harbour. I doubt if they know Pondicherry for the French colonialization and not for its cheap liquor. To them, the whole of the south is a neglected region, something that they don’t consider a part of their own country, either due to racial differences or due the difference in languages that they speak or due to to plain prejudices based on other factors they don’t themselves realise.
I speak Tamil, a language that has a rich literary history and has been in practice ever before Hindi was spoken as a language in Northern India. Tamil is as old as Sanskrit, and has been spoken in Deccan region from 3rd century BC. Hindi is India’s national language. But people in Tamilnadu still don’t regard Hindi as such. They don’t feel the need to learn Hindi, at the expense of learning their own language and contributing to its literature. Thus, the political parties used Tamil as their political weapon, waged the anti-Hindi war and promoted regionalism for their political exploits.
Still I was accommodative enough to learn Hindi, so that I will be able to strike a conversation and feel at ease with people who don’t speak my language. I still consider it the national language. But what irks me is the fact that the North Indians* never make an attempt to learn the south Indian languages, even if they stay permanently in Chennai, Hyderabad or Bangalore for a longer duration. They expect the whole of India to speak Hindi and criticise people when they don’t.
A point to be noted by all target audience (and especially the victims of auto rickshaw cheats):
“The auto rickshaw drivers will cheat anyone who doesn’t know the route to the destination. The person needn’t be a North Indian per se. Since the touring North Indians* have no location sense or grasp of the local language, it is inevitable that they are at the receiving end”.
The third thing is their attribution of Dosa, Idli and rice to South Indian food. South Indian dishes are as varied as North Indian dishes (if you accept that North Indian dishes are diverse). Commenting on the eating habits of South Indians will be as stupid to say that someone in North India has only roti all day.
This inherent negligence/dislike to South Indians is not a present-day fad. This hate has been passed on by generations, it is in the blood. If we go back in time and analyze where it all began, the only reason seems to be on racial grounds.
The whole idea behind introducing the Cultural diversity of India in history and geography books is to overcome these regional biases, superstitions and misinformation that have been passed to us by our forefathers. Despite the measures, if such an opinion lingers, one must say that the educational policy makers have failed in their attempt to promote regional co-operation.
*The “I” as mentioned in this blog denotes me. I am not putting forth the points here on behalf of Tamilians or South Indians, but myself. Secondly, the post is not targeted to North Indians in general. It is targeted to those North Indians that claim Chennai (substitute with Bangalore, Hyderabad, and South India) is not hospitable and auto rickshaw drivers cheat by displaying preferential treatment. So, ‘people’, ‘North Indians’ etc. are meant to denote that particular section of North Indians alone.


It’s great to see a blog which discusses North-South issues in a balanced manner. Unlike certain other blogs where people argue that “mine is longer than yours”.
Coming to your points, I agree with most of them. I’m a Tamilian, I’ve have learnt Hindi even though I’ve grown up outside India, because I find it quite a useful language, especially when I travel to North India. But I detest this attitude that all Indians must speak Hindi.
I’ve observed several cases of North Indians ridiculing and mocking South Indians who don’t speak Hindi. It happens even outside of India. Anything North Indian or Hindi-speaking is patriotic, and anyone who doesn’t fit in with this definition of Indianness is not Indian at all.
The status of Hindi as “national language” has given many North Indians this belief that they can go to any part of India and get everything done in Hindi. But very few of them learn the local language. You are spot on in this observation.
Indians really need to follow the lead of Singapore. They have a 78% Chinese population, but Chinese was not made the national language, but Singaporeans speaking Chinese, Malay, Tamil, Indonesian, Hindi or Punjabi all speak to one another in English.
The North-South divide will disappear only if the language-oriented ethnocentrism of some North Indians is buried deep in the ground. It’s not going to disappear by just willing it away.
You’re right Vasanth. India can take a cue from Singapore.
I am sure i wont be able to convince people with this blog, but i felt the need to put this in writing.
I will read through your blogspace sometime, and leave a comment.
[...] another North-South debate, you say? 12th Man tries to carefully chose his words in highlighting the ignorance of South India among other Indians [hat tip: Ojas' shared [...]
To play devil’s advocate here, let me tell you (as a bengali brought up in Delhi) that North Indians are also equally ignorant of diversity WITHIN North India or any other part of India for that matter. They don’t understand the differnces between Rajisthan and Haryana, refer to all north easterners as Chinks and their imitation of Bengalis speaking hindi are legendary. A lot of this stem more from ignorance and plain dumbness than dislike or “hatred”. Regional chauvanism is endemic to all ethnic groups in all regions of our varied land. FYI North Indians also feel that bengali food only consists of rice and fish. Do you as a south indian know the difference between Bengali, Assamese, Oriya and Manipuri cuisine? I suppose Northies are pretty much equal oppourtunity ofenders.
good post! i personally feel there is no point in saying that since hindi is spoken in most states others who don’t know hindi should learn it too. it’s like saying south indians should eat more roti instead of rice since most states eat roti. roti or rice is a part of the culture of a specific region. trying to destroy the culture is not justifiable. same rule goes for language. let cultural differences remain. why make india uniform in terms of language and practices. let india remain more colourful with all sorts of differences in culture and customs. also, eventhough hindi is considered the national language and taught in schools even in non-hindi speaking states, how many of them find it helpful in the future. they study it just for the sake of exams. just becos it’s imposed on them. and whoever happens to live in north india in future learns hindi in a short time after beginning to live there from interaction with people. it doesn’t need educating in schools. and a majority of the hindi learning students of south india are not living in north india or even visiting that part in their entire lives.
I agree with Madhurima in this regard (especially the cliches about North-east and Bengal). Being a Bong living in Bangalore for some years and seeing and interacting with a lot of people from various parts of the country, I think the issue lies with habitual ignorance/dumbness than hatred. And yes, as per my experience many Delhites have this absolute disregard about anything beyond Delhi (barring only Mumbai and Chandigarh, I think)…
Frankly speaking I can’t tell the distance between Delhi and Jammu without Googling and might assume they are as close say Delhi-Dehradun (which it is not), so i think the misconception about Chennai-Hyd distance is just that… ignorance. And talking about Carnatic music, well I’m sure if you have mentioned Hindusthani music many would assume it as Hindi music (maybe the Bollywood kind!!) considering the popularity and awareness of classical music among the aam-admi…
I am not trying to disprove your observation (which is on-the-spot to say the least), and I am not trying to justify the said ignorance.
What I am telling is what more to expect from people who are not even aware of their own culture, their own language, whose notion about culture and music is solely based on the regular Bollywood fare and it’s related extravaganza? To expect them to be knowledgeable and sensitive about people from other parts of the country and their language/culture is little too much in my opinion…
U mean u r not all madrasis:)
Just a point to be noted: Hindi is not “the” national language. It is a common misconception. There are 22 official languages. Quoting from Wiki “Even though Hindi is the language which is mostly spoken in India it is unable to attain the status of national language as it is does not fulfill the condition of Constitution of India.” So there u go
An official language being thrust upon us for no reason other than the fact that 10 states up North recognise it.
Points well made.
“They expect the whole of India to speak Hindi and criticise people when they don’t. “-I echo this feeling.
Mandatory knowledge of Hindi is NOT a criterion to be part of the Indian union.
And ya, I can speak Hindi and I am a Malayalee, and am comfortable with Tamil, Telugu and Kannada.
-Nikhil
Nikhil,
I agree with you. However, the same feeling exists vis-a-vis Hindi in Maharashtra (outside Mumbai), West Bengal, Punjab and definitely the North east. The “imposition” of Hindi and the resistance to it is not just a south indian phenomenon.
I agree with this blog overall, but I feel it oversimplifies the issues and paints south indians as the sole victims of northie chauvanism. This is just a manifestation of the “us versus them” feeling which regrettably is very much alive all over India and has been constantly exploited for political mileage by everyone ranging from the DMK to the Shiv Sena.
P.S. Apologies for the spelling and grammatical errors in the previous comment.
People in Mahrashtra , even outside mumbai, speak and understand hindi very well
@madhurima: I agree with you that South Indians are not the only victims of chauvinism. And most of what we perceive as arrogance or hatred is just plain ignorance. For most Indians in North, South and West, Kolkata is as far east as they can think. Most people don’t know about the diversity in other parts of the country.
Having said that, people from North India are probably more ‘loud’ about their feelings for Indians from other parts of India. And this is possibly the reason for the heartburn among South Indians regarding their attitude which is seen as arrogant and inconsiderate.
@ Sunshine: Yes, Maharashtrains, Punjabis and other non-native-Hindi-speaking-North-Indians (Gosh, we need too many categories!) are comfortable using Hindi. It is just that they don’t WANT to and are equally insistent that hindi speaking or non Punjabi/Marathi/xyz speaking settlers in their state speak their language. The issue is political and has little to do with language proficiency. I am pretty sure Raj and Bal Thakeray speak and understand Hindi pretty well. Hope that makes my point more clear.
@Philip: I fully understand what you mean by the “loudness” of North Indians. Thanks.
Yaar madrasiyon…..kuch kaam karo…
Baith ke bakwaas mat karo…Ok…okie… [;)]
Excellent post with well balanced views, and handled with sensitivity.
You are right, one blog post can’t change much but its a great start. I have said something similarly in my recent post titled ‘Plight of Widows in India.’
You have done well trying to bring about unity in diversity. Truly Indian.:)
I concur with madhurima roy. We in India know more about the (United) States than our neighboring states. The extent of ignorance varies, that is about it.
I have to say I agree because even though I can speak Hindi comfortably my North Indian Friends would not even attempt to understand or know what is Tamil. To them Tamil Nadu is the land of Rajinikanth. It will be good if atleast they can improve their understanding and knowledge of “South India”, if not its rich history. This is a good article.
“I had to mark where sugarcane and wheat was grown in the gangetic delta on a map, and study about the biodiversity in Uttaranchal. ”
WTF! I had to mark the location of nearest US embassy office on the map and study about various visas F1, H1B, EB1, EAD and the Green Card. Once I graduated, I went to the embassy, got my F1 visa, and came straight to USA. Then one by one I got the remaining visas H1B, EB1 etc and finally I got green card also. I have met hundreds of NRIs in my life and everytime we agree on one thing that India is not a real country. Real country means you must basically have atleast one main language. Whether it is Taamil or Telgu or Hindi I don’t care, just pick one & make everybody read it compulsory, otherwise shoot them and throw the body into Bay of Bengal. Don’t waste time with 22 official 4000 unofficial language then nobody will understand anything. Also country means you must have some common diet, variations are ok but atleast 1-2 items common across whole country. Like USA we will all eat basically chicken breast or else lean beef steak, then special occasion Apple Pie. Whereas in India north people eating roti south drinking sambaar no commonality. Then also your Indian filmstars are totally behaving like alien people. For example Hrithik Roshan from north and Surya from south both having one one sixpack. You think Hrithik eats Roti ? Surya eats rice ? Ofcourse not. If you eat roti or rice you will never get sixpack only one big rotund tummy like your mummy. So Hritik eating chicken breast, Surya eating tuna. So you are seeing no commonality between citizens whether in terms of food or language or veshboosh. Then what country ? Simply dissolve the constitution and become affiliate of USA. Incidentally that is already happening if you are following economy etc. 90% Indian GDP coming from USA only whether through IT or JT KT etc finally you are a satellite town of USA. Then why you care where is Bihar where in Bidar. Simply learn where is Baltimore and where is Boston. Then get the visa and see you at the next potluck party yaar ok bye.
I think the hegemony of the hindians is due to the subservience of other non hindi language speaking people towards hindi. I am referring to gujaratis, marathis, bengalis etc. Even though, they have their own languages, for entertainment they depend on hindi movies etc. If it were not for South Indians (tamils, teleugus & mallus) hindi would have completely taken over by now. Kannadigas are a lost cause, LOL:)
Majority of tax revenue comes from South India, the only contribution of the northies is their poverty and ignorance. I am referring to the so called hindi heartland (cow belt).
Thank you for your comments. Actually, i am not used to this kind of traffic in my blog space.
Madhurima,
I agree with you. To frankly say, i cannot differentiate between the North eastern languages and their cuisines, though i had friends from Bengal, Assam and Mizoram. But then, i conversed with them in English. They did not expect me to speak their language nor did I ask them to speak Tamil. My point was most of the educated North Indians can speak in English if they think they need a common language for communication, instead of asking South Indians to learn Hindi.
Deepdowne,
Valid points, I agree with you. Like i said, “it could be ‘hatred’ or some other factor they themselves don’t realise”. Let me hope it is not hatred.
Avik,
I agree with you. You cannot justify their ignorance, you can only pity it.
Sunshine,
I am from Madras. So that makes me a Madarasi. But not all South Indian are from Madras FYI.
A,
Thanks for bringing it to my notice. I did not know that.
Nikhil,
I agree with you on the fact that you can speak your language, follow your traditions, and still be an Indian.
Madhurima again,
The objective behind writing this entry is just to recount a few personal experiences. Like i have written in the disclaimer, i haven’t intended it to mean “us vs they”. Throughout the blog, it has been “Me vs they”. In fact, i didn’t think this blog will get the attention it has got. I agree with you that this is not just a ‘South’ phenomenon, but atleast that is what most educated bloggers think it to be. I am happy that you differ.
Sunshine again,
You cannot generalise things. Even South Indians can understand basic Hindi, just that they are not fluent enough to speak it, since they haven’t learn it. If you can prove your statement with facts, i will appreciate it. I cannot agree when someone says that a person in a remote village of Orissa or Maharashtra speaks and understands Hindi. And if they are able to, it arises from the similarity in the languages, which is not the case with South Indian languages.
Philip,
Even i hope it is ignorance, and has nothing to do with hatred. But my personal experience suggests otherwise.
Gyandevta,
Thanks. Yeh bhi mere kaam me se ek hai.
Celine,
Thanks. Will read through your entry sometime.
Hariohm,
There are a lot of my own batchmates who don’t clearly know the routes within chennai, but discuss taking I-95S to go from Miami to Raleigh.
Dinesh,
Even i vehemently oppose the attribution of Rajnikanth to South India. That is plain nonsense.
Tunku,
What you said is what many of my friends have done. Just that there is something that binds me to this country and pains me when i see these differences.
You know I can say exactly the same thing about many “south indians” , as i have lived here for past four years. Some gems that I have heard from my so called “South Indian” friends.
1. Bhojpuri is spoken all over UP.
2. Biharis don’t have access to vegetables, they only eat cabbage.
3. One lady friend from Hyderabad was scared to go to Delhi, because she saw Omkara.
4. One team mate genuinely asked if one gets internet access in Jaipur.
I can go on and on here, ignorance is not limited to north or south India, having spend half of my life in either parts I can vouch that its nothing to do with north/south. People are ignorant and they are found everywhere.
Yoyo,
Bollywood might be the bond uniting ‘North’ Indians, but atleast Rajnikanth doesn’t unite South Indians. A specific section of ‘North Indians’ want to take up those high paying jobs in Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai, and still want to criticize the people living there as well. Wonderful!
Pawan,
I reiterate it is not a North-South debate. As long as you understand that and recount only your personal experiences, i am fine.
Secondly, i am not taking anybody’s side here. What i intend to say is everyone must make a conscious attempt to learn about the country as a whole, instead of just sticking to their region of birth/descent.
@ Pawan,
I agree that there is ignorance at different levels in all parts of the country. But the point is: people in the south at least know that there is a dialect called bhojpuri. Honestly there are a number of north indians (based on personal experience) who simply cannot name the four south indian states or the four south indian languages. Even if I do tell them the states and languages the chance that they will map the state to the language correctly is really low.
And I am not sure if this sort of ignorance prevails in other parts of the country: I very distinctly remember having learned about all states, their capitals, their dance forms etc in school (and by that I mean even the seven sisters on the far east). Did they omit that part of the curriculum in the north?
It is strange to see that there is quite a lot of ignorance about the status of Hindi.
Please note, author and ‘commenters’, that nowhere in the Indian constitution is it mentioned that Hindi is our “National” language. Hindi is just one of the “official” languages of the union government.
@12th man,
“A specific section of ‘North Indians’ want to take up those high paying jobs in Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai, and still want to criticize the people living there as well”….
Wow, do these jobs come stamped as “for south indians only”, if so why do people go all over the world taking up jobs in different countries. aren’t they meant for local people. This logic amazes me people queue up L1 and H1b and here they are arguing against it against their own countrymen and that too these jobs are not generated locally!!!! I am not sure if they can’t see the irony or they just being dense.
@rk,
“Did they omit that part of the curriculum in the north?”
This is exactly the kind of sentiment I am talking about. Have you read/seen any north indian curriculum? Do you even know that there is no uniform “north indian” curriculum? Different states have their own curriculum, btw last I checked most of them copy the CBSE syllabus. I am not sure which “north indian” people you interact with, but I am sure they are not the smartest ones. I someone can’t name the four Southern states I am sure he must of below average IQ, same goes for any south indian who can’t name all the north indian states. right?
Pawan,
Valid point, people who can’t name the four southern states are low on IQ. Unfortunately, i know a few IIT/DCE ians who can’t name the four states.
Secondly, my point was ‘When people are prepared to come down south for a rewarding job, they have to prepare themselves to put up with the differences in language and culture”. They must not crib that local people don’t interact in their language. I did not mention that the jobs must be reserved for the local population only. You don’t go to the US and speak Hindi, do you?
Pawan,
Again, no southie cribs that the Northies don’t speak their language, do they? When i am prepared to learn hindi and adjust to Delhi, why can’t they attempt to learn the local language? If they can’t atleast let them not criticise those that can’t speak Hindi. Let’s again not drag it to represent the whole North/South community. I am talking about my so-called-IIT-educated-colleagues in office only.
Jitu,
I understood that, some earlier comment pointed that out to me.
The question is thrusting Hindi over the regions that don’t speak it. It is not a question of which language is official.
“They must not crib that local people don’t interact in their language.”
This I totally agree with, and I follow this in my life too, If I can’t speak Kannada its my problem I don’t go around asking people to talk to me in hindi. Unfortunately I have seen some people doing that and people are right in criticizing that. But please keep in mind that “north” is a much more varied place than some people down here think. People are different and so are attitudes.
PS: Being from IIT I can assure you that no everyone out there is smart, mugging down formulas is totally different from being smart.
I am a Maharashtrian living in Chennai for the last year.
Not once did I have problems with auto drivers or anyone due to language. “Tamizh (zh is required, L is not acceptabe
) Teriyad” was always accepted as an honest reason for not knowing Tamil.
Having said that, lets also be fair to “North Indians.” They don’t expect Tamilians to know Hindi… all they expect is Tamilians to not get chauvinistic when the north indians are shocked to see that Tamilians don’t know Hindi. This stems from simple ignorance. At most places outside of Tamil Nadu and Kerala, one can get by with Hindi because people would still be able to communicate. As a result, a Hindi-speaker assumes that s/he can get by with Hindi in Madras (Due to influx of “North Indians,” Chennai is more Hindi-savvy than Madras
). And when they can’t communicate, they are surprised. This is taken, at times, as an offense by some… why should someone naturally expect me to speak their language when they are visiting my home.
Really, it would be much easier if both sides would realise that neither side expects other side to behave in a particular way… they were simply not ready to believe the “diversity” thing they read in the textbooks is this real.
@author
I agree it is not fair to thrust an “oficial” language on all of the population. It is even more unfortunate that the a majority of people won’t mind using a foreign language (English) for uniformity. A lack of education (not literacy) is to be blamed and this exists in the north and in the south. But as long as there is an honest effort among expats to speak or grasp at least a few words in the vernacular, there will be no hard feelings at least among a majority of people. It is only when one arrogantly derides locals and their language without making an effort to appreciate their differences that there is a problem, leading to forced imposition of local languages on expats too.
Hi 12th Man,
I am a Kannadiga, living in Bangalore. But I have stayed in Pune, Goa for significant durations. Now, coming to the topic of your post.
I agree with the gist of this post – that there’s lot of ignorance (mind you im saying ignorance because i too believe thats the root cause of this divide – not hatred or anything) amongst “North Indians” about “South India”. I also agree only to some extent about the languages part. And most importantly, I think we South Indians are also as much to blame – we are not saints you know.
Lets start with the we-are-also-devils point first. Every other South Indian I know believes that Goans drink booze 3 times-a-day; they live their lives in the nude; and many dont even know that Goa is a state – they think it is a UT (and some even think it is a CITY!!). And we are not even talking about North India here – Goa is a neighboring state to Karnataka. (On a related note – http://ashishyahoo.blogspot.com/2007/02/goa-just-holiday-land.html)
It is always a mighty struggle for me to recount the names and capitals of all the states in the North East (let alone pointing them on a map) – and this is the case with most South Indians I know. I do not know the rough distance between say Patna and Lucknow – so I dont think the Chennai-H’bad mixup is too bad.
About the languages part – yes I too have come across many people who expect everyone in India to know Hindi – else the person does not qualify to be an Indian! This is ridiculous. However, let me share my Malaysian experience with you.
I had stayed for 7 months in Kuala Lumpur and although it is multi-ethnic and multi-lingual, EVERYONE i know conversed Malay (people of Tamilian origin included). This inspite of the fact that Malaysians are generally well-versed in English. Its like – if you are speaking to a Malaysian, it comes naturally to you to speak in Malay. However, in my Indian group, I had a few South Indians and few North Indians – and whenever we Indians conversed – we had to use English. It felt very bad that we could not foster a sense of oneness (had ONE guy known Hindi – we could all have conversed in Hindi). Dont you feel good if you find a Tamil-speaking person when you are outside Tamil Nadu? Doesnt it give you a sense of belonging to the same state? Just think of my example as the “national” equivalent of this.
But I am an optimist, and I believe that with passing time, and as people travel more, it will lead to people being more educated about places far from their hometowns. Thats when people will start seeing other cultures in a different light and appreciating them. Looking forward to a more united India. Jai Bharat.
@Pawan,
“Do you even know that there is no uniform “north indian” curriculum? ”
I did not say north indian curriculum .. i said curriculum in the north … (very different things). what i meant, in any case, was the CBSE curriculum which is the same across the nation. (but i guess (or hope) that state syllabus is similar to the cbse and includes chapters on various states in the geography books — if not, maybe you and i have managed to find the root cause of the prevalent ignorance in our nation.)
“I am not sure which “north indian” people you interact with, but I am sure they are not the smartest ones. I someone can’t name the four Southern states I am sure he must of below average IQ, same goes for any south indian who can’t name all the north indian states. right?”
to begin with, naming states and IQ are completely unrelated. the need of the hour is cultural curiosity and not intelligence quotient. in the defense of the north indian people whom i know, they’re some of the brightest minds one can find. It’s just that they are ignorant of the geography south of the vindhyas and my question is “why is it that way?” i am not here to blame them or go on a tirade against all northies! a north indian not being able to name the southern states, a south indian not being able to the seven sisters … it’s all mildly sadenning! but who should be blamed for the ignorance? maybe its the people themselves or maybe its something about the way our text books are written that needs to be changed…
I like Niket’s comments. They are the most balanced ones.
People (both NI & SI) should not crib about not being able to speak their own language and survive in another state, when they are ready for onsite positions at Japan, Germany and every imaginable developed country. They should make the same effort here.
12th Man, You are a humble Man!
Tunku, You know nothing about what US people eat. Their diet is as varied and vast as us. I am sorry that you only know about chicken breast and lean steak!
Like my “central” friend used to say ( he is maharashtrian ). Barbarians live in the north, the gentlemen live in the South
.
Pawan,
I agree with the fact that North India is varied in itself. But south indian hate (ignorance)/bollywood unites them.
Niket,
. I agree with you on the fact that reading ‘unity in diversity’ in textbooks and facing reality are different things.
Tamizh is fine, but it is ‘Theriyadhu’
Jitu,
Perfectly right. That is what i say as well, ‘Grasp a few words in the local language’. One doesn’t lose anything by learning a few words in the local language. Nobody asked people to be fluent with it.
Kiran,
I agree with you on the fact that ignorance is omnipresent. I am just talking numbers here. The people i have observed down south seemed to have better knowledge of the Indian geography than the North Indians i have observed. This, i say is subjective.
RK,
Not all schools follow CBSE syllabus. Why not propose one-country-one-social-sciences syllabi? So nobody can get away saying “It was not taught to us in school”.
Srini,
That’s the whole point. When you go to Japan, Germany or wherever, you either converse in English or in the local language. You don’t expect the locals to speak your language.
Dinesh,
Thanks for the compliment Sir!
George,
There are civilized souls living above the ‘central’ as well. I too am writing from Delhi.
and me truly Indonesia
@12th man,
As an aside, I have seen some people talking about north Indians trying to impose hindi over everyone. My native is in the heart of Hindi heartland (Allahabad to be precise) recently on my visit there I was told that government has made it mandatory that English be taught from class 1st in all government schools, not a single person I met opposed it. Everyone was saying that it was long pending. In fact in a lot of private schools Hindi isn’t taught at all and people scramble to get their kids admitted to those schools.
The point I am trying to make is maybe a couple of years after independence people tried to impose a uniform language all over India, but today even the most idiot of fanatics doesn’t dream of it. In fact as I am told Hindi is most likely to vanish of all Indian languages, because the average Hindi speaker in the heartland wants his/her kids to speak English and he is not very passionate about Hindi as are other non-Hindi speaking Indians. Only thing that works for Hindi right now is bollywood and everyone knows that its not run by people from Hindi heartland. (Mostly Punjabi actors and Gujju finance )
IMO, language is something that should reflect the evolution of the society , carrying a language like a dead monkey is idiotic any language will survive if people are willing to use it, otherwise it won’t. Trying to “save” some language by forcing people to use it, is really stupid.
I never read such debates thinking it would be a one sided journal, but you have put you points very well. Every south Indian might have faced the same comments from North Indians. I personal had to take many. Initial I was kind of irked, but later I thought that there is no point in arguing with them.
I’ve had many debates with Hindi-valaas ( in my college in Calicut and my office in Bangalore) on this- they keep insisting that learning hindi is a must if you are patriotic. They dont smell of ignorance, it is arrogance that comes out. They ridicule South Indian languages all the time.
And I’ve heard many of them ( I mean “many”) say that Tamilians dont want to be part of India.
I dont claim South Indians have a lot more knowledge about North India than vice versa. But we dont go around saying that learning XYZ language is a must for being patriotic.
And come on, in a group of Bengalis, Ghatis, Hindi-valaas and South Indians, almost often you’ll see the first three communicating in fluent Hindi while the last one struggling to keep up.
Also, I dont fancy going to Delhi and say: Hindi Nahi Malum.
Nice post. Would myself love to take a class on Indian cultural diversity- it’s so immensely rich and diverse!
Many don’t know where or how big India is- or even states within our own United States. But that people even within India don’t know their geography now, I am quite impressed by that. India is diverse geographically and climatically it’s not just one big HOT country!
As an American who married a South Indian rasied in Delhi who loves North Indian Cuisine, before marriage I cooked south Indian food. I realized after marriage that North Indian food shouldn’t have tempered, popped mustard seeds in it! What a shame! Now after three years I can tell the difference, as I am sure husband is quite happy!
You know I thought only Americans were so bad at geography!!
Oops Forgot to add – when my American counterparts meet me and realize I lived in Chennai for two years, I get asked by maybe 90%- do you know how to speak Indian! ??? HOw to answer to that (as how to answer to the Carnatic music question.. people just may not know Indian is not a language (as same is case with American- American is not a language too!!)
I used to feel this way about north Indians’ ‘ignorance’ of the south, until I began working in the north-east and discovered how poorly informed the ‘mainland’ was about that part of the country. Yes, even south Indians don’t know how many states there are in the NE, let alone capitals to all those states.
Why is this any less offensive than the north’s ignorance of the south?
[...] not today. There has been a largish dose of what Krish Ashok calls the Paratha-Parotta war in the world of blogs, and I feel compelled to add momos to the [...]
@12th Man, Pawan:
“RK,
Not all schools follow CBSE syllabus. Why not propose one-country-one-social-sciences syllabi? ….”
I agree! And this was the point I was trying to make in my previous comment. I think we have made an interesting observation: while we do know that CBSE geography text books do justice to the nation’s diversity; it would be good if there was some way of enforcing that even state syllabi has that. Knowing the dirty regional politics that states play, they might change the syllabus to focus “only” on regional heritage and not promote national diversity. If so, there should be rules to prevent this (without of course comprising the focus on regional heritage etc ).
@Varali: “even south Indians don’t know how many states there are in the NE, let alone capitals to all those states.
Why is this any less offensive than the north’s ignorance of the south?”
who ever said south’s ignorance of NE is “less offensive” than north’s ignorance of the south?
Let me say one thing about the “learning Hindi debate”. Why do most people learn other languages ? Convenience. Sure there are people who would want to bask in the glory of speaking French. But most people learn languages for convenience. That’s why a Russian living in the US learns english, the Tamil in Malaysia learns Malay and Marwaris in kolkata learn Bengali.
So why do certain group of people don’t learn a certain language ? Its not inconvenient enough. I lived in Netherlands for over a year, and there were hundreds of South Indians working there with me. Not even ONE made any attempt to learn the Dutch language. Why ? Because you can get by without learning it. Not inconvenient enough.
I have a different native language, but why did I learn Hindi – it’s just convenient to live in Mumbai and Delhi and even Bangalore. And also I participate and interact with a larger set of people. But that is secondary.
So, for South Indians, no one is forcing them to learn Hindi. But it makes sense to learn – just because it’s convenient to get by – no more no less. There is no patriotism, no nationalism here. Thus I feel if there is an ideological stand against not learning a particular language it’s extremely stupid.
I was about to jump into this with an anecdote about how someone from the other side said she thought “Thaameel, Taylgoo, Mullyaalerm and Kannad were all the same”. But then I realise we South Indians also tend to group everyone on the other side as Northies, even if they come from the East or further!
Sometimes it’s ridiculous, though, this grouping. I remember that serial Mrs Malini Iyer, was it, had Sridevi portraying a Tamil Iyer woman and breaking into Telugu every time she got excited about something!
That being said, I also wonder why, in TN, we prefer to retain British names for streets and other localities and reject Hindi/Sanskrit-sounding ones. If Hindi is an imposition, wasn’t British rule as well?
Surely Bollywood has also contributed it’s bit in sterotyping South Indians as comical, sambar-guzzling creatures saying “ayyo..ayyo” at frequent intervals and speaking in a convoluted, strangely-accented Hindi…?
Mehmood in Padosan is an example.
12th Man, first time on your site. In the midst of mindless movie reviews and angst-ridden confessions of the city-slickers, thank you for this gem of a post!
[...] 12th man, makes a humble post “Truly Indian” where he makes a statement and wishes that South Indians be learnt and respected for what they are. [...]
Hi,
I wrote about this tiresome divide just yesterday on my blog and this post of yours was automatically generated by WordPress as a “Possibly Related Post”.
Good to see sensible and mature posts on the subject.
Cheers.
PS: The link to my blog:
http://asmokescreen.wordpress.com/
The group which is prosperous embeds its language in literature, technology, art, music and popular culture. Its my firm belief that it has nothing to do with the language’s superiority or the group’s superiority inherently, merely an indication that its time has come. Lets think that English became popular (got itself entrenched in computer programming languages, scientific literature, popular music). Similarly Sanskrit, Urdu and Dravidian languages might have their own influence in Indian history, which we can see traces of even today when we look at present day forms of Hindi. Isn’t present Hindi far from the Sanskritized Hindi that one might have expected it to be, the legacy of the Indo-Aryan culture of ancient times. Urdu has creeped intravenously into it, even to some extent in North India, though not as much in the south. Of course, in the post-independence period, North India has been prosperous much earlier than South India, which has seen prosperity once recently due to IT, that could be a reason of its claim of superiority and Hindi imposition. But South India has its own prejudices too. I feel its best if economics takes over, let people learn the language that enables them to prosper most. Of course as long as we keep our national identity as Indians (leaving out the linguistic aspect), we may speak whatever language we prefer to.
a great blog with pin pointed comments (debates)
[...] Bihar, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh and Chattisgarh is over-run by Aryans. In one of my earlier posts, i had held that the discrimination faced by South Indians (who hail from the Dravidian race) in [...]